We are now entering the Chicken Wars.
Shrettuce or slaw? Potato buns or sliced bread? Spicy or spicy?
Molly and Declan talk about the recent resurgence in popularity of the fried chicken sandwich, the sandwich's true origin, and ease any anxieties re: at-home deep frying.
Thanks to our listeners, especially those of you who called in. Send your burning sandwich questions (not burning sandwich, you know what we mean) to podcasts@food52.com.
Mystical galactic voiceover: Peanut butter and jelly. Grilled cheese. Pastrami. Tuna salad. The Sandwich Universe.
Molly Baz: Welcome back to The Sandwich Universe, a place where sandwiches are everything.
Declan Bond: And everything is a sandwich. I'm Declan Bond, professional sandwich eater and self-proclaimed critic, aficionado, but also a total newb in the kitchen. Learning as much as I can as I go.
Molly: I'm Molly Baz. I am a cookbook author and recipe developer, and so I come to this podcast with many years of restaurant experience and cooking experience. And I'm here to share all of that with you, especially as it relates to really frickin' bomb sandwich construction at home.
Declan: Sandwich creation. Sandwich artistry. We're on a mission to uncover just that: how to make really epic versions of ten iconic sandwiches. Each episode, we've decided to focus on one sandwich, and learn as much as we can, take questions, and dive into the depths of that sandwich.
Molly: So without further ado, this week's episode is the fried chicken sando. What do you think? An iconic sandwich?
Declan: It's pretty iconic. It's definitely come to be--I feel like it's had a recent--
Molly: Resurgence, almost.
Declan: A resurgence, yeah.
Molly: In the last few years has been, I don't know if you're familiar with the chicken wars, but when Popeye's put their fried chicken sandwich on the menu in 2019, like, people went cray cray banaynay for it. And all of a sudden, all of these other fast food chains were like, "Oh, we need to up our chicken game." And so it's kind of been a war amongst the fast food restaurants in America for who makes the greatest chicken sandwich.
Declan: Interesting. Yeah, I didn't realize that. Did you find any interesting research about chicken sandwiches?
Molly: Um, I did. I started to look around, to fish around for the history of the fried chicken sandwich and like where the first known fried chicken sandwich appeared in America and many people credit Chick-fil-A.
Declan: It wasn't Chick-fil-A, was it?
Molly: No, it wasn't, but most people credit do credit Chick-fil-A because it was popularized by Chick-fil-A, which, by the way, my dad calls Chick-a-fil. (laughing) Like he gets it, he gets it backwards every time and he calls it Chick-a-fil, uh, but that's neither here nor there. Um, but actually. I read an article written by Ebony magazine that the first known appearance of the fried chicken sandwich was in a Black newspaper called Topeka's Kansas Whip. And there was a note about a fried chicken sandwich special at the Booker T Café, and that was all the way back in 1936. So I think it's important to acknowledge that certainly it wasn't just invented in the last few years, when like, food media picked up on fried chicken sandwiches, but furthermore Chick-fil-A did not invent it and fried chicken has deep roots in America. And so that's actually where this all began.
Declan: Yeah, and obviously one that has been glossed over.
Molly: Yeah. So fuck you Chick-fil-a, Chick-a-fil.
Declan: (laughing) Chick-a-fil. And then now I feel like there's also all these like sub-cultures of chicken sandwiches that are becoming way more popular again, like I think Nashville hot chicken is one that I've seen a ton of around.
Molly: Yup. And then of course there's a version of fried chicken, like, almost everywhere in the world. And so maybe it's not in a sandwich.
Declan: Yeah, you have like schnitzel...schnitzel is fried chicken, right?
Molly: Yeah! Or like a Milanese in Italy, or karaage in Japan, Korean fried chicken.
Declan: Yeah. Korean fried chicken.
Molly: I mean, so there's just--fried chicken is ubiquitous.
Declan: Alright. Well, should we take some calls, answer some questions about the fried chicken sandwich?
Molly: We shall, we shall. But I also think that before we dive in, I just want to establish that the fried chicken sandwich that I got the most questions about were specific to the kind of fast food fried chicken sandwich that we've been talking about. And so that I think is the sandwich that we should tackle here, and we're going to make it better than all of them. Like, we are entering the chicken wars.
Declan: Team of two, uh...
Molly: Let the games begin! (laughing)
Declan: (laughing) Let's take them.
(midroll)
Molly: Our first question is coming in from @_jaredog.
Declan: Or is it "Jared OG"?
Molly: No. Oh, maybe. (laughing) The OG Jared? Um, no, I think it's Jare Dog. I used to have a screen name that was Mdog. Like, I'm pretty sure that's a thing. "The ultimate chicken sando bun choice?" Question mark. You know, we've already sort of--I think in that question, Jare dog has established that we're talking about a bun. (laughing)
Declan: Big assumption. (laughing)
Molly: We're not talking about sliced bread. We're not, unfortunately, talking about sesame sourdough. Um, but I, but I agree, let's stay in the, let's stay in the bun.
Delcan: Yeah. I think it is a bun. I mean, obviously the running joke is sesame sourdough, but I, I feel like in this case it really is not a feasible sandwich bread choice for the fried chicken sandwich. (laughing)
Molly: No. Like, the bun is it. It's there for a reason. I personally am a huge Martin's potato rolls fan, just in general. I like my burgers on them and I like my fried chicken sandwiches on them, especially if you can find--and they're hard to find--the sesame seeded (laughing) Martin's potato rolls. Like, I'm not kidding.
Declan: (laughing) You had to do it, you had to do it.
Molly: Yeah, I did.
Declan: Um, yeah, I do love those. Although, is there any other kind of bun? I guess just normal, normal bun.
Molly: Like a hamburger bun that's not a potato roll, or a Kaiser roll, or, I mean, some people eat obviously, fried chicken on biscuits.
Declan: Or, I feel like white bread, like Wonder Bread. Although, I'm not sure--
Molly: Yeah, that's like a Nashville hot chicken vibe.
Declan: Yeah, exactly. Um, but I do like a bun.
Molly: I think it's just--the Martin's potato roll is kind of like, the king of the hamburger bun kingdom.
Declan: Question number two comes from @revChadBrooks, who asks:
Call-in: I need Molly to convince me of any good reason why a thigh is not the perfect fried chicken sandwich.
Declan: Um...
Molly: I shall not.
Declan: I shall not convince you of that. (laughing)
Molly: That is the truth. Even with all of the seasoning and the brining and everything that you can do to chicken in preparation for frying it, which is like, obviously, cooking it and then potentially drying it out, chicken breast is always more likely to be dry and over-cooked. And so I especially think that when it comes to frying chicken in a home kitchen, if you're not a fry daddy who's just slinging fried chicken all day long, like, and this is your first attempt at fried chicken, go for chicken thighs, because they are A. more flavorful, B. more juicy, and C. a lot harder to mess up. And they're just tastier.
Declan: They're just tastier. I mean, the dark meat is just always tastier and I feel like the size is also a little bit better. Like, when you get a whole full size chicken breast, it's a huge piece of meat.
Molly: Right. It's an awkward size, actually.
Declan: It's got like a huge thick center, the, the, um, the breast, and it, it's just too much to bite through in a sandwich, whereas the thigh is much more, um, manageable, in terms of bite by bite, how it, how it goes down.
Molly: And it's also just like, the size and shape of a bun, which is the vehicle that we are using here. So it just makes a lot of sense. So chicken thighs all the way.
Declan: Chicken thighs all day.
Molly: Okay. Here's another one coming in from @KillaDV.
Call-in: My question is, what is the best way to brine a chick for a chicken sando?
Molly: Okay, so you got a couple of options here. Generally, there are two categories of brining. For anyone who doesn't know, brining is a process of like, basically pre-seasoning your protein, and the seasoning not only seasons it and makes it taste better, and taste seasoned, but it also can help it retain moisture and juiciness and plumpness. And so that's why we brine things. And there's dry brining, and there's wet brining. Dry brining sounds fancy and is actually just seasoning with salt, like straight up. (laughing) If you're seasoning something with salt, you put salt on it. Sometimes you also put sugar on it, cause it, it just like, those two flavors together, those two ingredients together bring out a ton of flavor. It's--so it's seasoning it and letting it sit and, you know, letting it sit like overnight, or for four, six hours to allow, through osmosis, the seasoning to penetrate through the meat. So that's what a dry brine is.
Declan: So when I just like, put salt on something, can I say that I'm dry brining it?
Molly: No, because you're not. Unless you're, if you're cooking it right away, it seasoning, not brining.
Declan: Alright, alright, alright. (laughing)
Molly: No. Okay? You can't. Um, and then wet brining is basically submerging a piece of meat in a water, salt, sugar solution, or some kind of liquid that has salt and sugar and oftentimes other spices dissolved in it. And it's just another way to season a piece of meat. Um, a lot of times in fried chicken recipes, you'll, you'll see buttermilk brine. So when you hear buttermilk fried chicken, that means that the chicken has been brined in a seasoned solution of buttermilk, salt, sugar, and some other things.
Declan: I was going to ask you about this. So why buttermilk?
Molly: So buttermilk is the by-product of making butter. So whatever the liquid is that's left over after you've churned the butter and the butter has solidified, that leftover liquid is buttermilk.
Declan: Got it.
Molly: And buttermilk has pretty magical properties in terms of tenderizing and helping it to retain moisture. Um, and so it's a great substance to brine something in.
Declan: It's the obvious choice.
Molly: It is, but then I've also seen a lot of recipes--and I've never actually done this myself--for pickle brine. I do really believe in the power of buttermilk. So if my--in my ideal fried chicken, there's a splash of pickle brine in my buttermilk brine. And it's kind of like a combo platter. I mean, here's the thing about fried chicken. Whether you dry brine or wet brine, you are going to have to go into some sort of a wet mixture, and then into a flour mixture. That's the dredging process that creates the crust. So in some ways, if you already have to buy buttermilk in order to dredge and fry, you might as well also brine your chicken in it. But I also think there's a good argument for dry brining and just like, seasoning your chicken a couple of days in advance, keeping it in the fridge, and then dropping it into buttermilk if you wish. I just, it's sort of like--it's a storage question in your fridge, it's like, it's an effort question, it's--you can kind of go either way.
Declan: I feel like--yeah, I know a lot more about brining, and given everything you just said, I do also want to use buttermilk. Uh, it sounds like the right way to go. And obviously, you know, you see it everywhere, so something's gotta be up with that. And I am curious about the pickle juice in the brine.
Molly: Yeah, let's do it. Let's get some, let's put some pickle brine in our buttermilk.
Declan: I mean, cause fried chicken is so, it's so fatty and just like, rich. And I feel like that's why there's so much pickle on, you know, fried chicken sandwiches. It's just like one of the staple things that is around. Pickle chips just have to be about, and so it kind of makes sense to me to like, incorporate that.
Molly: Yeah. I feel that. And I mean, let's be clear. We're also going to be putting pickles on whatever sandwich we invent here, but why not add some of it to the brine?
Declan: We are getting millions of pickles.
Molly: So many pickles. Um...
Declan: Millions.
Molly: Okay, Dec, you want to take the next one?
Declan: Alright. @ricardoscupcakes says, "How do I get rid of the frying oil? No one ever talks about this." Mmm, big important tactical question for the kitchen.
Molly: Yeah, I think this is part of the bane of home frying.
Declan: I know. It's the worst. Um, I actually save my frying oil for a while, if it's not too fried out. Like, I'll put it back in a container after it's cooled and like, use it for a few fries. I dunno. Is that a bad idea, by the way? I've just been doing that.
Molly: No, that's not a bad idea. You just, um, the best thing to do is to strain out all of the little bits.
Declan: Yeah, yeah. All the little fry bits.
Molly: Because that can, those can go rancid. So as long as you strain out whatever's left behind, you can totally reuse whatever oil you're frying in. And like you said, the best way to handle it is to just leave it on your stove and wait until it is absolutely room temperature. Like, the next morning. Don't even try to deal with it night-of. And then the next morning, what I normally do is save the bottles that the oil came in, because they're usually like 48 ounce bottles or whatever. And then pour it back into those containers.
Declan: Yeah. Seal 'em up and put it right back in.
Molly: Yeah. That's kind of the most efficient way to do it.
Declan: Alright. Who's next?
Molly: Coming in from @rachelsailor, who says: "Deep frying at home freaks me out. I know it's not really a big D, but talk me off the ledge."
Declan: Honestly, all I can say is, it is a frightful prospect, but once you do it, it's one of those things where you're like, you got the steps. It, you know, you're--I mean, I haven't been marinating, actually, with my deep fries, usually, cause I just make French fries and stuff at home. But uh, I feel like with this process, it's, it's really simple once you're out of the brine stage, and the brine stage sounds pretty straightforward as well. So you're just going to dredge it, you know, get the batter on it, and then drop it in. And it, it just does itself. Like, you don't even have to do anything. You don't really have to tend to it other than to make sure that it's not completely getting blasted.
Molly: I think that the most important thing is to have a deep fry thermometer, because managing your--the temperature of your oil is the most important part of deep frying. If it's too hot, it's going to burn before the insides are cooked. You're going to have raw fried chicken in the middle, it's gonna be a disaster. If it's too cool, it will not crisp, and it will get oil logged and soggy, and--but it's just not a big deal. You just get it, you get a thermometer, a digital read thermometer, um, and you're generally always looking for something in the like #350 to 385 range. I generally try to fry--I bring my oil up to 385 whenever I'm frying anything, because I know that when I add a bunch of pieces of chicken or fish or whatever I'm frying, it's going to significantly drop.
Declan: Yeah. It's gonna come down.
Molly: Yeah. And so then you're back in the like 350 range, and that's kind of perfect for deep frying. And then, yeah, I mean, it's like a little bit splattery and a little bit messy, but nothing unmanageable, and you can always clean up right after. And it's really not that big a D. So that's that. And I think confidence is really important in the kitchen. You own the stove. You run the kitchen. It does not run you.
Declan: You are the captain now.
Molly: You are! You have the authority and the agency and in your kitchen, and not--no single appliance or pot does. And so I think it's important to remember that.
Declan: Okay. @gimmealolly asks, "Can we pan fry? I don't know how to deep fry and I don't know if I have the right vessel for it." Well, if we didn't just pep you up into deep frying, I don't know what will, but I don't know. Mol, what do you think about pan frying? I think probably it's going to be okay.
Molly: Yeah. I mean, pan frying, if we're talking about--
Declan: It's just a different sandwich, I guess, right?
Molly: No, you can deep fry in a cast iron skillet. It's just, um, you can't use as much oil and you have to be really cognizant of flipping and turning things, cause they're not fully submerged as they fry. And I just don't prefer to do it because the short sides of a cast iron skillet just mean that like, you're, they're just like, more kind of oil splatter that's bound to happen. So I would always rather deep fry in a pot. But if it makes you feel more comfortable to be like, sort of semi-shallow frying in cast iron, you totally can. You just want to make sure that there's like, enough room between the pieces of chicken and the bottom of the skillet that it's not actually physically touching the bottom of the skillet. It's just--there's so much dredgey flour, uncooked flour on a piece of chicken. And there are so many nooks and crannies that if you're, if you don't make sure that every bit of that is making contact with the oil, you will have raw floury bits that will be unpleasant. Alright. That's enough about deep frying for today. Here's a question from @_jfalls, who asks, "What's the ideal sauce situation? Plain mayo? Ranch? I am stressed." Okay, don't be stressed or I'm going to get stressed, and I don't want to get stressed right now. (laughing)
Declan: Not plain mayo.
Molly: No.
Declan: And actually not ranch either. Um...
Molly: Maybe, though! What's your problem with ranch?
Declan: Well, I mean, I don't have any problems with ranch. It just better be flippin' zhuzhed.
Molly: No, it better be flippin' homemade.
Declan: But I think something, something interesting is, is needed here.
Molly: Yeah. So, okay. Bottom line is, mayo or some kind of creamy fatty--eugh, I hate how often I use the word lubricant on the show, but lubricant, is a crucial element of the fried chicken sandwich. It's what provides contrast to the crispy crunchy bits.
Declan: And it just binds the whole sandwich together. Like, you've got a lot of loose, loose elements in there, the fried chicken, the pickles, and you need something to like, get saucy and bind it all together.
Molly: And also just like, mayonnaise is delicious. So...
Declan: You probably want mayonnaise on almost every sandwich. Which sandwich does not want mayonnaise? Except the hoagie.
Molly: The hoagie.
Declan: And the PB&J.
Molly: (laughing) The PB&J for sure.
Declan: (laughing) Let's not interpret that blanket statement too much.
Molly: Um, so I think one thing about the mayonnaise in a fried chicken sandwich is, this is your opportunity to go buck wild with the seasoning. Like, the world is your oyster. You can add anything to mayonnaise. And so I think it's a great way to get creative with the sandwich, whether that be, you know, adding, like taking it in more of the tartar sauce direction, like we once talked about, where you're like, adding pickles and dill and capers and things like that, or whether it's making a sriracha mayo, or like a chipotle mayo. Or you're, maybe you're just using aioli and there's just a little bit of garlic in it, or you're doing an herby mayo. Like you literally--it's just, there's like, there are a few things you can't add to mayo to make it, turn it into a really tasty sauce. And so I encourage everyone to be really creative when it comes to that.
Declan: Yeah. That said, I do think there's some things that, in particular with a chicken sandwich, that you should, we should definitely consider, which are, we're going to get acid in multiple places, but we need it in almost all of those places, because there's just so much to counterbalance. And then second is, you know, if you're, if you don't have hot chicken, uh, you know, something spicy, um, because it's not easy to get spice out of a slaw. Well, it can be done. Um, and pickles, you know, sometimes you get spicy pickles, but, uh, it's just another great place to consider, to like...
Molly: Totally. Um, I think that spice is kind of crucial on a fried chicken sandwich. One other way that you can introduce it is in the dredge. And so adding like cayenne or some other kind of chili flake to the actual flour or to the buttermilk brine is a way to get heat into the chicken as well.
Declan: Alright. @ChristianSJohnson asks, "Ideal type of slaw?"
Molly: Um, ideal type of slow. I think the question is more, like, slaw, yes or no?
Declan: Slaw yes or no. Alternatives being, what, lettuce? And I guess if you do go the slaw route, uh, you know, vinegar based or mayonnaise based slaw. But let's return to the higher order question. Coleslaw or something else?
Molly: Uh, I just, for some reason...
Declan: Let me guess, iceberg.
Molly: (laughing) It's just calling me. I, I do, I appreciate a slaw, but I also kind of feel like, you know, there's already, mayonnaise on the sandwich. We have that like, creamy element. There's crunchy pickles, and I feel like a refreshing watery crunch is actually what I want on a fried chicken sandwich and not a cabbagey one.
Declan: So aligned. I'm so aligned with you on this.
Molly: Ah! I love that for us.
Declan: Honestly, the cabbage slaw is not nearly as crispy.
Molly: No.
Declan: it's not--it's way sweeter, often.
Molly: Yeah.
Declan: Cause it's got carrots in it, and sometimes...
Molly: Sugar.
Declan: You know, sugary mayonnaise stuff. And I just feel like, just knowing myself, and--
Molly: You're gonna hate it.
Declan: You know, what--I'm going to hate it. I'm just not going to like that. So...
Molly: Why does it have to be on the sandwich? Like, let's put our slaw on the side, as it comes with most other sandwiches. And if you want to have a bite of slaw, have a bite of slaw. You know? You can have your slaw and eat it too. It just can't be on the sandwich.
Declan: (laughing) Yeah.
Molly: Um, okay, great. So we love iceberg.
Declan: Yeah. As, as well as a massive, just massive pile of pickle chips.
Molly: Oh yeah.
Declan: You can never have enough pickle chips in your actual sandwich.
Molly: Is that true? Yeah, I mean, maybe if you're like fully lined up.
Declan: You always want a few extras, just on the side, so that you can just grab a bite, grab a little pickle chip.
Molly: Yeah, but you also have like an insanely acidic palate. You.
Declan: That's true.
Molly: You're like, you basically like drink acid. (laughing) Um, but yeah, I mean, in general, pickles for life. Um, so yeah, I think I would say iceberg lettuce, and, and I also feel like, because this is a hot chicken preparation, the iceberg should be in like, wedges the size of the bun and not shredduce style.
Declan: Yeah, I agree. And it gives us a little bit more crunch, and, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Molly: Yeah. A few good layers. Like, I want to have, like, I want like a least an inch of iceberg on that sandwich.
Declan: Yeah. As much iceberg as chicken.
Molly: Yeah. Equal parts iceberg and chicken.
Declan: Alright. I feel like that's the effective construction of the sandwich.
Molly: Well, did we talk about the pickles? I mean...
Declan: We didn't talk about the pickles, we just--we've noted multiple times that pickles have to be a big part of this, you know, in and around. Is there anything specific we should do? I mean, I've been saying pickle chips because those feel right.
Molly: Yeah, they do.
Declan: Um, is there something special besides a dill? I mean, a spicy dill could be nice.
Molly: I, I don't know why I am going to say this, and I already don't like it, (laughing) but I feel compelled to suggest a bread and butter pickle here. Even though I know last episode--
Declan: I never thought I'd hear you say it.
Molly: I think last episode, I was like, "Fuck bread and butter pickles. I never want to see one in my life." And now here I am being like, "Bread and butter pickles, question mark?" Um, I--
Declan: But not to replace dills, of course, just as an a, an additive, a secondary, uh...
Molly: Uh, maybe a mix? I don't know. I just, for some reason, the sweetness feels--like, there's so much savory action on this sandwich.
Declan: Interesting. I am, I am vehemently opposed, but I also feel like I've learned in the course of this season to try and keep an open mind and somehow this moment is, is calling me to do that. So maybe we should do a mix.
Molly: No, let's not, let's just go dill pickles. (laughing) I actually hate bread and butter pickles.
Declan: (laughing) I opened up my heart, I opened up my heart and you just--
Molly: I know. I literally said that just because like, I wanted to see if you would meet me there.
Declan: You just wanted to test me.
Molly: I did. And you did, but we don't have to do it. Let's go dill pickles.
Declan: Ugh, you got me. Hook, line, sinker. Oh, man.
Molly: Okay, cool. So dill pickles it is. (laughing)
Declan: No, forget that. I'm going to take a few. I'm going to bring a few bread and butters and just see what happens.
Molly: Oh really! Oh, the tables have turned. (laughing) Ok, fine, we'll try both.
Declan: I'm going to be convincing you.
Molly: Okay. I love this. I feel like we answered a lot of questions. Should we move into the, make your own, invent your own fried chicken sando phase of this podcast, and really get into what we want to make?
Declan: Yeah. I feel like we've got a lot staked out already.
Molly: Yeah. So let's go from the outside in.
Declan: Sesame Martin's potato rolls.
Molly: Yup.
Declan: Which we'll have to seek out.
Molly: I don't know if--actually do they have--they have them on the west coast, right? (typing sounds)
Declan: I actually don't know if I've ever seen them on the west coast.
Molly: (gasping) No! No! (laughing)
Declan: They're an east coast thing.
Molly: Oh my God. The fact that I just only learned that Martin's potato rolls are an east coast thing, and yet I still moved here?
Declan: I know. Big mistake.
Molly: What am I doing? We're going to have to order a case, because that's the only way we're going to be able to get them. (laughing) And then we're going to have a fried chicken sandwich party. Um, next up, the mayo. Let's talk about the mayo, cause where do we want to go with this?
Declan: I like the original tartar sauce suggestion, but I want to go, tartar sauce to the extreme. I want it like, very pickly, I want to add some like, pickled jalapenos or something. Um, those are my initial thoughts. What do you think?
Molly: I, all of a sudden, just thought of this idea. Mayonnaise that has chili crisp stirred into it.
Declan: Oh yeah.
Molly: And then for acid, we could do like a rice vinegar.
Declan: Ok. Love that. I love that.
Molly: Are you like, are we aligned or are we scared?
Declan: I'm--you don't have to ask me twice.
Molly: Then, then we can put a lot of it in, and we'll get texture from it. Cause you know how it's so crunchy, and also it'll stain it like this incredible red because it's suspended in that like, chili oil. I just like, I feel it. I feel it.
Declan: Wait, sorry. Back up for a second, back up for a second. Are we toasting the bun?
Molly: Yeah, we shall, we shall.
Declan: Please? Okay. Thank you.
Molly: We'll toast it in a little--
Declan: I think toasted on one side.
Molly: Yeah, of course. The pickle element, do we still feel dill pickles slash bread and butter pickles knowing that we're going chili crisp?
Declan: I think it's got to be dills. I'm going to put a few bread and butters on the side to honor what I, what I opened my heart to. (laughing) Uh, but I think on the sandwich...
Molly: The dill picks. And then we're going to do an inch of iceberg, like, wedges, like an inch of, you know, properly square, or circularly the same diameter as the bun, maybe a little larger for the drama of it sticking out, so that there's as much iceberg as there is chicken on this sando.
Declan: Yeah. Mmhmm. And do you think that goes on--below the chicken or on top of it?
Molly: Um, I think below. I think that we can arrange it so that it's convex, and then the chicken can kind of nestle right in there. So then lastly, we have to talk about the chicken, and whether you are interested in a dry brine or a wet brine and what kind of seasonings you want in there.
Declan: I want to do a wet brine. I want buttermilk in it. Um, and I, even as--I mean, I'm a novice here, so I don't really know, but I do love this idea of pickle juice in the buttermilk brine. Is that a good idea?
Molly: Hell yeah. Let's do it.
Declan: Ok. Let's fucking do it.
Molly: Let's do that. Um, and then let's do, do you want to do any other spices? Like, do you want to do any smoked paprika or onion powder or garlic powder?
Declan: Cayenne sounds nice. A few of those things.
Molly: Yeah, let's do some spices, both in the brine, and obviously we'll do salt and sugar in the brine, but then in the flour judge, that's another place where we can reintroduce them. Smoked paprika and, and, um, onion and garlic powder are just like, calling my name, and also black pepper as the things we should be adding in here. And so we can whisk them into our flour dredge. And I also want to say that when it comes to dredging and crispy chicken, the best way to achieve that really long lasting crunch is to cut some of the flour with corn starch. So doing a mixture of corn starch and all purposeful flour in the dredge will help with supremely shattery crispy chicken.
Declan: Whoof. I do feel like it's all of a sudden gotten quite complex, the frying. But...
Molly: Yeah. It takes a little bit of planning. And here's the other thing about the dredge and the chicken. My technique is to go from buttermilk brine into flour back into buttermilk brine, back into flour.
Declan: Back into flour?
Molly: The double dredge for the ultimate crust. There's a technique of like, really squeezing and pinching the flour into the chicken, as you're tossing it in that final flour dredge, that really like--
Declan: Just handling the chicken.
Molly: Yeah, like really manhandle it so that you get like, lots of clingy craggy floury clumps all over it, because those are the bits that fry up really nice and crispy. And if you're, if you don't take the care to do that, you'll have a more of like, a one note exterior to your crispy chicken. So that's what we'll do.
Declan: Alright.
Molly: That's really all I need in my fried chicken sandwich. It's, it's complex, but it's also simple, you know?
Declan: Yeah.
Molly: Alright, well, I need to go locate a case of Martin's potato rolls right now. That is my mission, and I will see you...
Declan: I'll go churn some butter, and...we'll have buttermilk shortly. (laughing)
Molly: (laughing) Yeah. Great. You started turning the butter. Okay, Big, I'll see you soon.
Declan: Bye, Big. See ya!
Molly: Bye!
(musical interlude)
Molly: First order of business is, let's get this chicken out of the buttermilk pickle brine and into the dredge. And we need to add some spices to the dredge.
Declan: Okay.
Molly: Don't you want to?
Declan: Yeah. Absolutely.
Molly: Hit the spice drawer.
Declan: Okay.
Molly: So just to recap, we have flour, cornstarch, smoked paprika, red pepper flakes, onion powder, salt, pepper.
Declan: Dredge it up!
Molly: And the chicken has been brining in pickle brine, buttermilk, cayenne, and more smoked paprika.
Declan: Into the dredge.
Molly: And then back into the buttermilk.
Declan: Back into the dredge.
Molly: And then back into the dredge. And also, I wanna put an egg in here. It helps with the clingage.
Declan: Eggy wegg. I'm going to start the mayo.
Molly: Okay. I pulled out two different chili crisps. I was thinking we could do a mix of both, just cause we have 'em.
Declan: Oh, nice. They're both good.
Molly: I mean, do it to taste, obviously. And rice vinegar. I also got some rice vinegar to brighten it up a bit. Pinching and squeezing it once it's coated, to kind of like rough it up. Get craggies. Crag out with your wag out. (laughing) I don't know what that means, but it feels right.
Declan: (laughing) Picks. Where's the pickles?
Molly: I already took the picks out. They're on your board.
Declan: No, not these pickle chips. If that's what you want me to use, I was just--
Molly: Oh, what kind of pickles did you want? Oh, I was thinking we'd do pickles on the sandwich, not in the mayo. Did you want to do them in the mayo?
Declan: Yeah, I want to do both.
Molly: Okay.
Declan: Drop two chickens, please.
Molly: Drop a what?
Declan: Drop two chickens, please.
Molly: (laughing) Oho-kay. Order fire chicken?
Declan: (laughing) Order fire chicken sandwich. (frying sounds) Okay, buns are toasty.
Molly: Buns are toasty!
Declan: Alright. Where are we assembling? Lettuce?
Molly: Over here.
Declan: Okay. Here we go.
Molly: Pickles on bottom.
Declan: There we go. Pickles on bottom, always. And top. and top.
Molly: Pickles everywhere.
Declan: Mmm. This looks like upgraded McDonald's chicken sandwich.
Molly: That's exactly what we went--remember when I said--
Declan: We're doing it. We're entering the wars?
Molly: I said, let the games begin. (laughing) These are the games.
Declan: Let the games begin. The battle has commenced.
Molly: We're now playing the game.
(musical interlude)
Molly: Okay. Should we go outside, or are we doing this here?
Declan: Um, let's just do it.
Molly: It's so messy. I feel like we should just eat it right here and right now and call it a day.
Declan: It's legitimately the best chicken sandwich I've ever had.
Molly: Ever. (chewing sounds) This chicken sandwich has won the war.
Declan: We just won.
Molly: We won.
Declan: Another great success.
Molly: A smashing success. We won the war.
Declan: Expect nothing less. We won the war. The war is over.
Molly: We have one episode left.
Declan: One last glorious episode.
Molly: And it's going to be a special one. So we hope you guys join us next week for the final episode of season one of The Sandwich Universe. Thank you to our presenting sponsor Cabot Creamery and to the Food52 podcast network.
Declan: To Coral Lee, for producing our podcast.
Molly: And to Jeffrey Brodsky for the music. We will see you next week for our final episode.
Declan: Bye bye!
Molly: Bye!