Molly and Declan lighten up the meat log.
How many meats is too many? What is provolone anyway? Is there an ideal lettuce-to-everything-else ratio?
Molly and Declan get to the bottom of what makes—and breaks—the Italian (aka grinder, aka hoagie, aka hero, aka sub).
Special thanks to our listeners for your questions—especially those who took the time to call in. Send your burning sandwich questions (not burning sandwich, you know what we mean) to podcasts@food52.com.
Mystical galactic voiceover: Peanut butter and jelly. Grilled cheese. Pastrami. Tuna salad. The Sandwich Universe.
Molly Baz: Welcome back to The Sandwich Universe, a place where everything is a sandwich.
Declan Bond: And a sandwich is everything. I mean, literally everything is a sandwich here.
Molly: Oh, in this particular little space, yes. (laughing) Once we leave these closets, maybe less so. We're recording in closets, for those of you who can't see us, which is all of you. Anyway, I'm Molly Baz. I am a professional chef, although I kind of hate to call myself that. I'm also a cookbook author. Um, and I am joined here by my friend, Declan Bond.
Declan: Hey everyone, I am, as I've said before, a self-proclaimed sandwich critic and lover. I'm not a chef. I represent the civilian sandwich enthusiasts.
Molly: Of which there are many. Mostly.
Declan: Yeah, that's the--it's the 99%.
Molly: Honestly most of the population is you. Yeah. And so together we are here on a mission to learn all there is to learn and explore all there is to explore about ten iconic American deli sandwiches. We've hit a couple of them already, but today we have a very special episode because this might be our joint favorite sandwich. Am I right?
Declan: I mean, second to the BLT probably, is one of the faves. I mean, it's a heavy hitter.
Molly: It really is. And if you don't already know, it's the Italian. Hoagie. Hero. Grinder. Uh, what are the other ones, Declan?
Declan: Spuckie. Garibaldi. Blimpie. Wedge. Some people call this a wedge sandwich.
Molly: What the hell? Honestly, there's one million names for this sandwich, but generally speaking it's the Italian. We'll just call it that. And we're very excited for this episode. So without further ado, the Italian sandwich. What do we have to say about this guy?
Declan: The first thing that comes to mind when you say Italian sandwich is like--
Molly: Yum!
Declan: A sandwich, like, explosion. It's the biggest--
Molly: Magnanimous sandwich.
Declan: ...behemoth-like sandwich mountain. It's, it's pure mass. I think of like--
Molly: It's so indulgent.
Declan: Yeah. And like, at the end of it you're always, you know, you're struggling through the last bites, but they're too delicious to not, not go in for. Um, it has this like just, just Scooby Doo-style, like, enormity, and it's the sandwich you go for when you are just dying of hunger. At the, at the deli I go to, uh, in LA, it's like, you wait for an hour, it feels like, and that's kind of just right, because you need to build that level of anxious enthusiasm and hunger for it, because it's so mass.
Molly: It's everyone's favorite sandwich.
Declan: If it's not, then you haven't had a good one. That's, that's how I feel about it. It's that kind of sandwich.
Molly: I feel that. Here is the thing that I think is the struggle with the Italian sandwich. I think a lot of times people, people find that the versions they make at home are not as spectacular as the versions that they find out at Italian delis, and the like. And so I think what we should really explore today is, how do we make the best version of that sandwich at home, within reason? Because this is a podcast for home cooks.
Declan: Yeah, and I think the, the Italian is, is actually good for that, because there's no like, special uh, cooking or technique that you really need. It, it's all about just like, the perfect assembly. And if you can get the perfect assembly--
Molly: And ingredient sourcing.
Declan: And ingredients. If you can get that right, I feel like you're, you're home free. Um, and of course, gold leaf, uh, on your bread.
Molly: Okay. We're not doing that.
Declan: (laughing)
Molly: Um, you're such a bouge-er. Okay. Um, one thing I feel like we need to acknowledge before, before we take some questions, is just like, what the hell is going on with all of these names?
Declan: It's wild.
Molly: It's really wild.
Declan: There are so many names. I did a tiny bit of looking up of some of these names, just to see if I could wrangle a bit of an explanation, and I'll just run through 'em.
Molly: Ok.
Declan: The sub, obviously an abbreviation for the submarine, obviously a submarine shape. Hero, apparently, uh, way back when, someone published something that said you had to be a hero to eat it because it was so big.
Molly: Oh I love that.
Declan: Similarly, the hoagie, apparently, in Philly, uh, was based on a "hoggy," which was, you had to be a hog to eat a sandwich that big, which then in the Philly accent became "hoagie."
Molly: Mmhmm.
Declan: A grinder was named because of the toothsome-ness that became, you know, iconic of having to chew your way through such a massive sandwich.
Molly: And some of that bread, which we can talk about later.
Declan: And some of that, yeah, that chewy tough bread.
Molly: That chewy ass bread.
Declan: Uh, a spuckie, short for a spuccadella.
Molly: Oooh, what does that mean?
Declan: Which is a big, I guess an Italian roll. I don't know, it's some kind of Italian roll.
Molly: Okay, I'm just looking this up right now. Hold on, the spuccadella is an Italian American bread roll that has a long pointed shape. It's used in the preparation of the spuckie sandwich. So it looks like a hoagie roll, it's just a different term for the roll, basically. It's the bread. It refers to the bread, the pointy-ass bread. Go on!
Declan: Okay, so, in Wisconsin, apparently they go by Garibaldi sandwiches, or a Garibaldi. In--
Molly: Not gonna lie, I have never heard that.
Declan: In Hoboken, you can get a blimpie, which is apparently after a chain, Blimpie sandwiches.
Molly: Yup. You don't fuck with Blimpie?
Declan: Which, actually, that rings a bell.
Molly: Yeah, c'mon, dude.
Declan: Um, in the midwest, there's the Dagwoods, which is after a comic book character? I didn't go that deep, but uh, apparently there's a comic book character. Uh, and finally, in like, the northeast, you can get a wedge which is based on the diagonal cut of the sandwich in the middle, which creates like a sharp wedge.
Molly: Oh I love that, I've never heard of that. The Italian wedge? That feels good to me.
Declan: The Italian wedge sandwich.
Molly: So basically there are one million names for the sandwich, but if we could just like, quickly define what I think we're all kind of getting at here. This is a sandwich that is obviously between two slices of bread, or uh, or a slice of bread that's been cut at least three quarters of the way through, and it is comprised of several cured cold cuts, usually pork.
Declan: Yeah, it's got to be pork.
Molly: It has, occasionally has cheese on it. And we're going to talk about that later on, I think, because I kind of have a lot of feelings about it. And it generally has some kind of lettuce, slaw, pickled veg kind of topper situation on it. But generally speaking, it's meats, cheeses, pickly things in some kind of red wine or vinegary vinaigrette that's tying it all together, on a long ovular shaped piece of bread, correct?
Declan: Yeah, I think that sums it up.
Molly: Okay, so why don't we pivot now and take some questions from the people so we can get to the bottom of this iconic sandwich.
Declan: Let's do it.
Molly: We will be right back after this to take some of your questions.
(midroll)
Molly: We are back. Declan, are you ready for some questions from the peeps?
Declan: I'm ready. I'm ready to dig in.
Molly: Here's one that came in from @superkellyfragilistic.
Call-in: What's up, Molly and Declan? Okay, so I'm a fan of spice on a sandwich, and I'm wondering what you would add that wouldn't overwhelm an Italian sub, but would give it that nice kick. Are you going, you know, Calabrian chili move, maybe a pickled pepper, or is it going to be some kind of special sauce? And then if so, how much you're adding, and where it's going in that layering process?
Molly: Okay, this is one that we feel really strongly about, because we've made several Italian sandwiches together in our day, and I would say the biggest takeaway from all of those sandwiches is basically like, more spice, more spice, more pickle, more spice.
Declan: Absolutely. I think the, one of the greatest parts about an Italian sandwich is the pickled pepper thing that you can do with it. And the acidity. I mean we've talked about it before, acidity in a sandwich is, like almost always the thing that a sandwich, you know, misses. And in an Italian, you kind of have that problem solved de facto by A. having spicy pickled pepper things, and B. obviously the red wine vinaigrette that just dresses the whole, whole number.
Molly: I also feel like when it comes to the question of, how do I make a really good version of an Italian sandwich at home, this is where you can really thrive. So even if you can't get your hands on like, the world's greatest, most coveted cured meats, which would be great, and would definitely help you out, you, if you spend a lot of time and attention on the condiments and the pickly spicy kind of like slaw situation that's going on top of them, you can move mountains with that, I would say. And it doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor. In fact, oftentimes I find like, the kind of like, run-of-the-mill pepperoncini, or like, the very accessible jar of giardiniera that you see in a lot of delis and a lot of grocery stores, is the best tool for the job. There's a lot of meat and fat and bread for all of that to cut through. Like, if you think about the cross section of an Italian sandwich and how there's like, oftentimes like an inch and a half of meat, that's just fat and protein and then there's cheese on top of that, and then there's oil and sometimes there's mayonnaise, and so the spicy pickly relishy situation is really serving a purpose in this sandwich, so spend a lot of time on that.
Declan: Yeah. I will say one specific thing that I didn't know about that you taught me about, Mol, was Calabrian chili. And this is a special secret ingredient. It's not, it's not the run of the mill giardiniera, it's not just a pepperoncini, it's not just a pickled jalapeno, which are all great, as we said. But Calabrian chili is weird and funky and really potent, and it's actually one of the few spicy elements that you can add that you can probably add too much of. Like, we had one sandwich where we added so much, because it's really delicious, and then we just like totally bombed our palate, and it was like almost inedible. But in the right quantity, just a little, you know, a few little swipes of Calabrian chili paste is really special.
Molly: Yeah. And for those of you who are not familiar, Calabrian chili paste is basically, it's like a spready, kind of finally chopped chili condiment that is made of, I think, dried and rehydrated chilies that kind of get fermented, and so they're vinegary and they're oily, and they have this like, fermenty funk to them that you don't get from something like a just straight up pickled pepperoncini. Um, and they're bright red, and you'll find them in Italian markets, um, and yeah, they're really, really potent. And so I think it's like, use those sparingly, and then go hard on like, kind of the more, uh, down the middle things like pepperoncini and giardiniera. Someone actually asked me, um, what the, what I think the best giardiniera is on the market. And so giardiniera is just like a mixed Italian pickle, and there's a brand that I really love called Marconi, that Declan, you've had. We've had this together before. It has like, a red and yellow label, really spicy. It's really pickly, but it's also packed in oil. So it's kind of like, already dressed. And for me, this is the only giardiniera, honestly.
Declan: Yeah. And by the way, if you get a sandwich from the deli, just do yourself a favor and pick up a whole entire jar of giardiniera on the side.
Molly: A hundred percent.
Declan: Just eat those things side by side, bite for bite.
Molly: That's the baller move. Yes.
Declan: Alright. Here's a great one. This is an important question. Uh, it's from @flipsilk, and they say: "Mayo or nah?"
Molly: (laughing) Brah?
Declan: Brah? (laughing) Um, which I think is, it kind of gets to the heart of the matter, really. Mol, what do you think?
Molly: Okay, I need to share something. Until one month ago, I was parading around being like, "Mayonnaise on Italian sandwiches, only everybody's doing it wrong. It needs mayonnaise. There's not enough fat, it's always dry, bladdy bladdy blah, yada yada yada." Like, I was on a tirade about mayonnaise until you and I spent the day making Italian sandwiches, and I realized that what I needed was not mayonnaise, what I needed was a more heavily dressed sandwich overall, that the mayonnaise is actually kind of interfering with what makes that sandwich so glorious. So I've entirely flipped the script and I now believe, nah.
Declan: (laughing) Um, I don't completely agree. I think mayo on an Italian can be glorious, and I think it comes down to whether or not you're going to use cheese. Um, because if you're not using cheese, I do think that, that the mayo adds some nice creaminess to the whole thing. And if you're using a cheese, which probably should be provolone, and there probably shouldn't be more than one of them, just in case you're thinking too big and wanting to put multiple types of cheese on there, um, I think that mayo can serve in that context. And if you aren't using--or, sorry, if you are using, you know, a cheese to kind of give a little bit of creaminess to it, then you definitely don't need mayo. Mayo's forbidden.
Molly: I definitely feel that. There's something that just feels a little wrong about it, honestly, overall. But I do want to talk about the cheese question with you, because I'm not convinced that provolone is additive to an Italian sandwich. I think it's classic. I think it's traditional and nostalgic and I get it. But have you ever eaten a slice of provolone and been like, "Damn, let me get another slice of that"?
Declan: No, the answer is no. However, I can't deny that like, when I think about an Italian sandwich, it does kind of like, it does appear in that sandwich. And the reason, again, is because it gives this like mellow soft flavor that helps integrate all the other elements. And there's so much acid. I mean, we talked about, it's like a heavily acidic sandwich, and if you just have super acidic and super fatty, and you know, uh, you know, cured meats, salty savory cured meats, sometimes a little something to meld it all together in the form of something like a provolone. I don't know what else you could do.
Molly: May I offer an alternative?
Declan: Please.
Molly: I think that the cheese in the Italian sandwich should enter the conversation in the form of grated parm.
Declan: Wow.
Molly: And it should be incorporated into the lettucey, pickly, slaw salady situation that's going on top.
Declan: I mean, this is a tough suggestion for me, because you know you're preying on a weakness of mine, which is I love parmesan cheese. And...
Molly: Yeah, and so does everyone in the world, and nobody loves provolone. So like, I'm preying on the world. Do you feel me or do you feel me?
Declan: I, I could be convinced of that. The only reason I wouldn't be convinced, of course, is because it's quite sharp and it doesn't have that creamy, uh, you know, not melty, but you know meldiness, that, you know, round, mellowiness...
Molly: Mellow, mildness. Yeah.
Declan: But maybe we just achieved that with mayo, although you just renounced mayo publicly.
Molly: I just don't think it's necessary. I think that parm is fatty and nutty and sharp and cheesy, and it's kind of got everything that provolone doesn't. Sorry provolone. Like, I've loved you a lot in your life. Honestly, I've eaten a lot of you, but if I'm really thinking objectively about the future of the sandwich, I feel like parm has a seat at the table, and I feel like provolone might not.
Declan: Ok, I think this is a battle, I might, I might have to cede to parmesan.
Molly: Yeah, I mean, you're losing already. You love it. Okay, on to the next?
Declan: Here's a good one. It's from I.L.--
Molly: I.L. Junior Succi.
Call-in: Of all the Italian meats out there, what in your opinion is the must-have combination for the ultimate Italian sando?
Declan: I mean, I wish I had a just off-the-cuff immediate answer, but I think I need to talk my way through this one.
Molly: There's a lot. Here's what it is. There's the cooked meats and there's the cured meats. The cured meats are taking a piece of pork and basically cooking it by curing it in salt in other things, and those are the prosciuttos, Serrano hams, salami, soppressatas of the world. And then there's the cooked meats, which are like a cooked ham or mortadella is also a cooked--it's like a poached meat. And so those tend to be less funky, a little bit like, more mild. And so for me it's all about the, like, the beauty, the beauty of an Italian sandwiches kind of blending those all together. My preference normally is to do one or two funky cured meats and then one cooked meat. And when we talk about cooked meats, I'm really only--
Declan: We're talking about mortadella.
Molly: Yeah, I mean, let's be real. Morty D is the king of the, like--bologna is king, and mortadella is just fancy ass bologna. I love mortadella.
Declan: Is that what it is?
Molly: Yes.
Declan: But what is bologna? I mean, I feel like, I really--
Molly: It's pork meat that's been emulsified with its own fat, and then poached, like, in a water bath until it's basically like a sliceable hot dog.
Declan: God, I love this. I love it.
Molly: Yeah, I mean, it's the best meat.
Declan: And then you put a little pistachio, little shavings in there.
Molly: Yeah, you like, flick it with some pistachios and then charge like, $29.99 a pound for it. (laughing)
Declan: (laughing) Sign me up.
Molly: So to answer your question, sir, I would say--or actually ma'am, I don't know who you are. Um, I think mortadella has a place on the Italian sandwich, uh, absolutely, like that's not in question. And then I feel like I always try and add a salami. So generally, for me that's like a Calabrese salami, or soppressata, or some kind of spicy salami because I'd like to get a little bit of heat in there in the form of the meat. So, you know, if you only can get Genoa salami, that's fine, dial up your heat somewhere else. But make sure there's a salami in there, because the salami brings an undeniable funk, I would say. And then there's like, is it a coppa ham? Or is it a, um...
Declan: Prosciutto? Bresaola?
Molly: Is it a serrano? Bresaola? Like, all of these things...I'm actually not like, the biggest prosciutto fan in general.
Declan: Prosciutto is tough, because it also affects the eatability of the sandwich. It's stringy, it can--if it's not cut extra extra extra fine, it can become, just like, uh, you know, you get strings of it pulling out. It definitely will get caught in like a molar, and that is a lasting issue for months.
Molly: (laughing) Months. Yeah, I agree with that. And so, and for some reason, like just a regular ass cooked sliced ham doesn't really hold its weight in this sandwich. And so my inclination is always to do a capicola. It's got a little bit of prosciutto vibes in terms of its translucency and saltiness. But um, but it's, it's a very far cry from like, a standard American sliced ham. And I think the trifecta for me is capicola, some kind of salami, preferably spicy soppressata. And then Morty D.
Declan: Yeah. I'm bored with all those things.
Molly: This is from @flowersformybrain: "Listen, I need my bread to stop getting soggy. S.O.S." This feels urgent. Like, I am stressed, I'm sweating. We need to help a sister out. I feel her, because when we were talking about BLTs, people were asking us how to avoid the sog situation with the BLT, and your reply to that was, "You should eat your BLT so fucking fast that it doesn't even get soggy." I hear that. I don't feel like that's the case for the Italian. I feel like it's just not. It's just a monster of a sandwich.
Declan: It's just not feasible, really.
Molly: It takes a frickin' minute to get through it, and so I do think that sogfest is like, a real issue that we should discuss. One thing that you can do, and this is by no means traditional, but is to, in the same way kind of that we talked about the construction and the architecture of the BLT, but is to line the sandwich with some of the cured meats as a bit of a barrier, and so, so that it sort of protects the bread from the insane red wine vinegar giardiniera drip sog situation. So putting a thin layer of salami on the top piece and a thin layer on the bottom, and then dressing the salad and throwing it in the middle with the rest of the meats and cheeses and giardiniera could be an option.
Declan: Yeah. It's counterintuitive because when you think about an Italian, you think about that like, that layer of meat and it's all, you know, three or whatever number of meats that you have stacked up together, and they're kind of like, creating the bottom layer of of a sandwich that rises high with the, you know, shredded lettuce and all the other things. But I do like this solution a lot. It works if you're not counting on the bread to absorb a bunch of the red wine vinegar and dressing, which I think--we've talked about before, should be primarily focused on the actual lettuce itself.
Molly: Yeah. Because I feel like a lot of times you'll go to a deli and what will happen is they'll--okay, so they'll split open the roll, cut it in two sides, they'll throw red wine vinegar and olive oil on both sides of the roll and then they'll start with the meat and then the cheese and then they'll put undressed iceberg lettuce, pepperoncini, etcetera, maybe some black pepper on top, close it all up. And it's like the--actually, the bread is getting dressed in that situation, not the lettuce, and what we really need to be dressing is the lettuce, because it's basically just like a spicy salad slaw that's going on top. And so if we just sort of like, rejigger where the oil and vinegar are going, focus them on the iceberg, which needs the support and needs the like, seasoning and the flavor. Then we avoid just dousing our bread in things that are sogging it out out the gates.
Declan: Yeah. It also, it increases like the transport ability of the Italian too, because I like an Italian on a picnic. I like taking an Italian to the beach.
Molly: Oh my god, Italian at the beach? Freaking forget about it. Come on.
Declan: I mean, come on, forget about it. A little San Pelly?
Molly: Yeah. And then, honestly, and then you're so full and then you go into the water and somehow the water like, helps you digest.
Declan: (laughing) You wash it all away.
Molly: Yes. And you get out of the water and you're like, "Anybody ready for another sandwich?" Like, you've digested. It's the best.
Declan: (laughing) Oh man.
Molly: So yeah, I would say that, I would say just think about think about where your, where the sauce is going on your sandwich and where does it really need to be. There's one more question that I do want to answer, from @princeykim:
Call-in: Do you have any techniques to prevent the backend spillage that happens when eating a sandwich?
Molly: This is the plight of the Italian sando. Depending on the bread--
Declan: It's an age old question.
Molly: I'm kind of of the persuasion that it's just like, that's kind of what you're in for with an Italian.
Declan: You're going to slip.
Molly: Like, you're going to get a little bit of slip. I do, though, think that in terms of if we're talking about making Italian sandwiches at home, which is what we're talking about, the one thing you can absolutely do to help kind of keep things tight and contained is to wrap your sandwich in parchment paper. Which may sound simple and rudimentary, but how often are you actually wrapping or sandwiches in paper when you're eating them at home? Probably not that often.
Declan: Yeah. Or any paper, like--I feel like--
Molly: Foil, whatever it is. Wax paper, like whatever you have.
Declan: Foil works. Like, just give it a little extra--wax paper is good, printer paper...
Molly: Yeah, honestly, toilet paper, paper towels...
Declan: (laughing) No, not toilet paper.
Molly: (laughing) No, toilet paper would dissolve in a sec. But just in general, like, you just want a little bandage. Like, you just kind of want to keep it nice and tight.
Declan: Yeah.
Molly: I feel like that will really make a big difference in terms of that spillage. And then it's a matter of bread, which, like--a hoagie roll is just a chewy kind of bread, for the most part.
Declan: Yeah. And that's just going to mean that you're not--when you, when your teeth sink in, they're going to just like, hit this like, like, stretchy, chewy barrier that isn't gonna want to break right away, and they're going to have to really, you know. Um, I think, another thing, I mean, if--you know, your, your hoagie should always be cut, and I don't think you should really eat a hoagie full, you know, full on.
Molly: Oh my god, has anyone ever done that? (laughing) Eaten, like, a twelve inch hoagie, just like, gnawing at it like a carrot? That's kind of stressful.
Declan: Um, but anyways, I mean, I guess it depends on how big your hands are actually, but I feel like part of it is just in the hold. Like, you gotta hold it. You gotta cradle your Italian, in a way.
Molly: Totally. Get comfortable with the cradle.
Declan: And this is, my problem has more been, once I've got ahold of my Italian sandwich, I've got both hands on it, and now I can't pick up my drink because I've taken a bite or two. I've got the sandwich, I can't let go, because if I do, we're fallin' all over the picnic table.
Molly: It's so true. It's, take a sip before you start eating, eat your entire sandwich, and then chug your drink at the end. Like, there's no breaks happening. And then you're also like, slurping up the juices that run down your arms. And that's, I mean, that's the Italian. Sorry. It's part of the glory. That's why we love it.
Declan: Alright. So I feel like we've talked about a lot of different aspects of the sandwich. We're pretty close.
Molly: I'm pretty clear on the sandwich we want to make.
Declan: Let's build our sandwich.
Molly: Okay. We're going to do a hoagie roll because that is kind of part of the definition, or a submarine roll, or whatever you wanna call it.
Declan: It's what's needed. Like, there's no ciabatta...
Molly: Oh my god, fuck ciabatta.
Declan: Uh, you know, focaccia, or anything for the Italian. It has to be just a long submarine shaped roll.
Molly: It just is. 100%. Meats: I think we landed on this. We want to do spicy soppressata or a calabrese salami. So like a spicy salami. We want to do capicola, we want to do mortadella. We feel like--or at least I feel like that's the trifecta.
Declan: Yeah, I like that, that line up.
Molly: Okay, great. Then let's talk about the topper, if there's going to be cheese, and what the ratios are going to be. I would like to hear your thoughts.
Declan: Okay, first of all, I think that tomatoes are in question. Do tomatoes going on an Italian? And I really think that the answer is, are they in season or not? If they're not in season, it's okay to go without. Um, I think another question that comes up is onions, and I think, I think onions are great. I really like an onion. Very thinly sliced.
Molly: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Thinly! So thinly. Like paper thin. A red onion, yeah?
Declan: Yeah.
Molly: I'm feeling like the shaved red onion is getting tossed in with our shredded iceberg lettuce, which is, you know, the bulk of our salady slaw portion.
Declan: Yeah. I'm also, as we've talked through this episode, I've just like, fully come around to parmesan. I like, I really like the idea.
Molly: Wow. This is huge, Big.
Declan: You've got me. So let's do that. Let's do that in this in the slaw as well.
Molly: Okay, so here's what I'm thinking, because I feel like sometimes what happens with an Italian is like, there--it becomes fragmented into so many parts that it's like, no wonder it's all falling apart because you're trying to put like eight different layers of ingredients on a sandwich. And so my feeling is obviously we're going to put our three meats on the bottom and maybe a protective layer on the top to preserve the bread. But then I think what we should do is just make like a big delicious bowl of iceberg giardiniera slaw and that will include the shaved red onions. It will include like, big piles of giardiniera, lots and lots of iceberg, like, more than you think is appropriate. Probably cut an entire head of iceberg up for two, for two sandwiches because it decreases in volume so massively once under, under pressure and with, with acidity. And we'll add parm to that, and then we just make a really delicious, like almost, like, too, too delicious and too acidic and too tasty salad and that will top our meat and cheese-optional portion.
Declan: I love it. It's so simple. It's basically a ham sandwich with slaw.
Molly: Yes. And here's the final thing to debate here. The ratio of slaw to meat before the top piece of bread goes on.
Declan: I mean, I go pretty aggressive here, um, on slaw. I think it's like a pre-suppression, like pre-compression, it is almost like a 90-10. Like we're really--
Molly: Yeah, it's either a 90-10 or an 80-20, and that remains to be seen and we will figure that out. But it's like you, you just can't underestimate how much that's going to fall and wilt and compress. And, and if you think about that cross section of the sandwich, you really want it to be 50-50, if not a little bit more in favor of the slaw, and it, it loses a lot of volume. So bear that in mind as you're building your sandwiches.
Declan: Epic. I think this is also going to solve a lot of the problems of the slippage. Like, I just think it's a much more manageable, portable, edible--
Molly: Totally.
Declan: It's two things.
Molly: It's two things, honestly. And maybe we'll--maybe we'll do a little, like a dotting of Calabrian chili on the bread.
Declan: I was going to say, I think we should incorporate it--yeah, on the bread is nice. Like under the protective sheath of uh, of coppa.
Molly: Yeah, it's not wet. It's pretty pasty. I feel really good about this sandwich and I genuinely cannot wait to eat it.
Declan: I'm hungry.
Molly: I'm starving.
Declan: Alright, let's go shopping and uh, come back and make some brilliant Italian sandwiches.
Molly: Brilliant. They will be nothing short of brilliant.
(musical interlude)
Declan: Okay, let's just chop some lettuce quick.
Molly: And I'm gonna use a lot of iceberg, honestly. I'm gonna do half of the head for two sandwiches. (chopping sounds) I don't even know if that's enough, honestly. Can you cut that onion while I'm doing this?
Declan: Yeah. Do you have a mandolin?
Molly: Why don't you let the pro do it? An amateur chopping his hands, his fingers off.
Declan: (laughing)
Molly: Okay, I'm going to add a few big scoops of giardiniera right into the slaw. And here we have lots of grated parmigiano reggiano. Mmmm! (pepper grinding sounds) Keep going. I like a really black peppery...I mean, everything, really. Okay, that's good. Salt. Like, I'm already in on this.
Declan: Oh my god. (laughing) I just wanna...
Molly: Face plant. Okay, before we put the salami on, I'm gonna swath each side with a little bit of Calabrian chili paste.
Declan: Gentle now. Don't be too wild. It's pungent.
Molly: Not too aggressive. Yeah.
Declan: Salami goes down.
Molly: Both sides.
Declan: Both sides.
Molly: You start grabbing that Morty D.
Declan: Morty D.
Molly: And I like to kind of pile it like in a ribbony sort of, you know, mountain. Mortadella mountains.
Declan: Mmm, just a nice little, a little, gentle draping.
Molly: And then I'm just going to pile on this here slaw. Like, when I say 90% to 10%, I mean it.
(musical interlude)
Molly: Grab me a Pelly.
Declan: Okay. Alright, I'm tucking in.
Molly: Tuck in. Cheers. (unwrapping sounds) Damn. Big takeaways for the Italian sando?
Declan: Simplify your Italian sando.
Molly: Cut the prove, add the parm, and dress the shit out of that iceberg lettuce. And lots of heat, spice.
Declan: Boom.
Molly: We will see you back here next week for another episode about The Sandwich Universe.
Declan: Thanks again to Cabot Creamery, our presenting sponsor, Coral Lee for producing our podcast, and Jeffrey Brodsky for the theme music.
Molly: Please like, subscribe, and follow, or whatever you have to do so you don't miss another episode! See you next week!
Declan: See ya!